Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
View
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline Tatoosh  
#1 Posted : Monday, October 09, 2017 12:10:50 PM(UTC)
Tatoosh


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/2/2012(UTC)
Posts: 128
Man
United States
Location: ex-expat -

Thanks: 6 times
So are you folks running NiceHash when you aren't gaming? Are you staring at the price of 'used' Graphic cards and wondering what the hell happened? Will the new ASIC antminers finally drive down the price of gaming GPU's so gamers can afford them? What say you?
Turkey bacon is not really bacon. Pork jowl, pork belly, pork something ... slow cured, real smoke, real bacon.
Offline tredeuce  
#2 Posted : Monday, October 09, 2017 4:44:26 PM(UTC)
tredeuce


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/21/2017(UTC)
Posts: 39

Thanks: 3 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
I do not mine, nor do I want to invest in it from my limited understanding of it. Deals can always be found if you look and are willing to wait long enough, so I am not concerned with the rising prices. I do not fault those who mine for buying video cards, nor does it bother me when they sell them. I just do not like businesses who raise the prices due to demand, purchasers who view the cards as a "market", and consumers who resell the cards not being totally honest with the condition of the cards.
Offline toby5  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:56:49 AM(UTC)
toby5


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/2/2017(UTC)
Posts: 57
Man
United States

Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Originally Posted by: tredeuce Go to Quoted Post
I do not mine, nor do I want to invest in it from my limited understanding of it. Deals can always be found if you look and are willing to wait long enough, so I am not concerned with the rising prices. I do not fault those who mine for buying video cards, nor does it bother me when they sell them. I just do not like businesses who raise the prices due to demand, purchasers who view the cards as a "market", and consumers who resell the cards not being totally honest with the condition of the cards.
All of this. It does scare me trying to look into a used card though. If you get one that has been previously used for mining, it's probably already basically toast and people are trying to recoup from that. No way.
Offline Tatoosh  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, October 10, 2017 11:11:27 AM(UTC)
Tatoosh


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/2/2012(UTC)
Posts: 128
Man
United States
Location: ex-expat -

Thanks: 6 times
I am a bit surprised that a gamer with a high end GPU (or two) doesn't mine, given that it is free money when they are not playing. I suppose the inconvenience of turning the mining software on and off between sessions would be part of it. And the hassle of setting up a crypto wallet to store your booty figures in too. But given the zeal with which we love to research games for eggs and hacks, it doesn't seem like such a reach for most. - I guess I was thinking mostly about the price of GPU's going astronomical due to the crypto mining demand for them. Cards are often getting a serious premium over the suggested retail and even used cards are pricey. And as you noted, often of suspect quality. - With Bitmain (the leading manufacturer of ASIC miners) now releasing miners that can mine outside of Bitcoin, it should relieve demand for GPU miners some. Or I would be surprised if it did not, given the superiority of the Bitmain product (such as a D3 miner) compared to the miners home brewed 6 GPU mining rig. - I am trying to scrabble up enough to build a GPU miner now and then get a couple of the Bitmain units in the future. While crypto currency really appeals more to the young these days, it will likely find a lot of supporters among the older population that are wary of the large US dollar debt and concerned about currency manipulation and value - whether it is American dollars or Chinese yuan. The benefit of the GPU approach in a gamer's computer is that I can put a better one in my computer, game with it, and then let it make money for my gaming habit with something like NiceHash that takes most of the searching for profitable mining out of my hands and automates it. I like that!
Turkey bacon is not really bacon. Pork jowl, pork belly, pork something ... slow cured, real smoke, real bacon.
Offline tredeuce  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, October 10, 2017 2:12:10 PM(UTC)
tredeuce


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/21/2017(UTC)
Posts: 39

Thanks: 3 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
I do not consider it free money. The chance for a profit, yes. The tech barrier is certainly an issue, and so is the complete understanding of mining and all of the mechanics about mining overall. From my limited understanding of mining and from what I have read, mining is still sort of the "Wild West." I must say that I do not fully understand investing either, but that does not mean I am against investing. If people feel like the understand mining and think they can make a profit, I fully support that. I wonder what the tax implications are with mining as well.
Offline digitaldd  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, October 11, 2017 10:33:44 AM(UTC)
digitaldd


Rank: Advanced Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/2/2001(UTC)
Posts: 3,022
Man
Location: United States, New York

Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 7 time(s) in 7 post(s)
Some of us live in areas where the electrical cost of mining may not be worth it. Also the wear an tear on your system might make it not work it in the long run.
Offline Tatoosh  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, October 11, 2017 11:05:00 AM(UTC)
Tatoosh


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/2/2012(UTC)
Posts: 128
Man
United States
Location: ex-expat -

Thanks: 6 times
Well, in terms of free money, you do have to look at the power costs naturally. But there are calculators out there that make it pretty easy to see what your power costs are. Or a twenty buck monitoring plug pass-through like a Kill-O-Watt will show that figure at your plug. Now mining will run your board full out which will take a few years of life off the board. Does that really matter to you as a gamer? Do you expect to use your current graphics card far, far into the future? ... A good GPU should last 10 years of intermittent use. And maybe 6 or 7 years of heavy mining use. So do you see yourself gaming on the same card in 5 years? Probably not, unless you are cheapskate like myself. How about if that card could make you 50 bucks a month when you are not gaming? A good GTX 1070 should pull close to $44 US dollars using NiceHash currently. A GTX 1080 ti will pull $63 roughly. And that is with a deduction of 0.11 for electricity. So look at your electricity cost and see if you are far off my numbers. ... Is Bitcoin and other coins speculative? Well, yes, but so is FIAT currency, the stuff in your wallet. Is it tied to any tangible thing? Not really, just the reputation of the country that issues it. So currencies go up and down all the time. That is what FOREX trading is all about. And the stock market, and CryptoCurrency. It's just that Big Banking and Governments don't have their thumb on the Crypto market (yet). But I'm not saying take your hard earned cash and invest it in Bitcoins or Litecoins or whatever. But rather take that high end graphics card and let it pay its way. And yes, the IRS wants you to pay taxes on your Bitcoins when you use them. If you convert those Bitcoins to FIAT currency - dollars, rubles, yen or whatever, then you should add it to your annual income figure. And let it help you pay that somewhat elevated electric bill you now get monthly. ... Now there are other things you could set your computer to do that is worthwhile. Lend it to researchers to help work on complex medical research when it is sitting idle. Good stuff and will make you feel warm and fuzzy inside. But I get warm and fuzzy if I have a few extra dollars in my pocket so I'll be mining with a GTX 1070 in the near future and my old computer will have a serious upgrade as a gamer too.
Turkey bacon is not really bacon. Pork jowl, pork belly, pork something ... slow cured, real smoke, real bacon.
Offline tredeuce  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, October 11, 2017 2:32:41 PM(UTC)
tredeuce


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/21/2017(UTC)
Posts: 39

Thanks: 3 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Have you looked into the tax implications of mining as well? I am sure taxes would have to be paid on the income. There might even be some benefits as well, like being able to take a deduction for the mining equipment like the cost of the rig itself. I say that as far as in the US. I would imagine that there are relevant tax codes in most countries as well.
Offline Blackhawk8100  
#9 Posted : Thursday, October 12, 2017 9:20:54 PM(UTC)
Blackhawk8100


Rank: Administration

Reputation:

Groups: Administrators, Moderator, Registered
Joined: 5/7/2014(UTC)
Posts: 1,926
Man
United States
Location: A Cold Place

Thanks: 6 times
Was thanked: 46 time(s) in 42 post(s)
With mining, you may have report it as self-employment as a side job and then report equipment as "business expenses." IDK though.
My Info: Tweet me @ www.twitter.com/BlackHawk8100 OR join Discord to chat! https://discord.gg/PStJBcJ
Offline lezacy  
#10 Posted : Friday, October 13, 2017 9:17:50 AM(UTC)
lezacy


Rank: Newbie

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/13/2017(UTC)
Posts: 1
Norway

Gamers
Offline toby5  
#11 Posted : Friday, October 13, 2017 11:27:20 AM(UTC)
toby5


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/2/2017(UTC)
Posts: 57
Man
United States

Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
If you think mining is bad, there are sites hijacking your cpu through code to make money for them including The Pirate Bay and Showtime has even been out in the wild doing this with their streaming services. This terrible stuff and should be illegal.
Offline Tatoosh  
#12 Posted : Friday, October 13, 2017 9:46:17 PM(UTC)
Tatoosh


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/2/2012(UTC)
Posts: 128
Man
United States
Location: ex-expat -

Thanks: 6 times
(Paragraph) Treduce, I have only started to get aware of the IRS implications. I think they are pretty much treating any created wealth through mining like you were making money anywhere. You need to report it in your taxes. I doubt they will haunt you over a small amount made from mining with one or two GPU's in your gaming rig. (Paragraph) Blackhawk, Yes ... If you are doing it enough, it becomes a small business. So you can itemize and deduct your expenses for it, which would be the cost of the card and the power of electricity. I would set up an LLC (in the USA) if I did much more than a graphic card or twos worth. Once you start building 'mining rigs' with 6 or more GPU's or going in whole hog with ASIC antminers then it only makes sense to take advantage of the tax benefits. (Paragraph) Toby5, Anyone that inserts a program without permission should be prosecuted, imho. Mining as a gamer so you can slip a few extra bucks in your pocket is one thing. Stealing the power and GPU use of unknowing visitors to your website or service is simply theft and should be a crime. So while I generally like torrents, I have no such pity on a torrent related service that does something like that. (Paragraph) Lezacy - If I pop $350 for a GTX 1070 8gb card, getting $45 a month back in bitcoin is about the only justification I can make to my wife. I'm hoping that GTX 1070 can do dual monitors, I think it only has one DVI out port. (Paragraph) A bit more on IRS and crypto currency here: IRS & Crypto Currency . . . Sorry - paragraphing doesn't seem to be working here again ... <sigh>

Edited by user Friday, October 13, 2017 9:58:11 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Turkey bacon is not really bacon. Pork jowl, pork belly, pork something ... slow cured, real smoke, real bacon.
Offline Tatoosh  
#13 Posted : Saturday, October 14, 2017 12:49:03 PM(UTC)
Tatoosh


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/2/2012(UTC)
Posts: 128
Man
United States
Location: ex-expat -

Thanks: 6 times
(Paragraph) Digitaldd, you are right. The cost of electricity has a very big effect on earnings and is why most of the huge mining factories are in China. But even outside of China, if you can get your power at 'industrial' rates ... say 6 cents a kilowatt hour, you can see a fair bit more profit. Most crypto miners do not have access to industrial rates. Where I live the residential cost is 11 cents an hour so it is a bit high compared to some and lower than others. If you live where electricity is kept lower by government subsidy and have access to reliable internet, you are golden. Where I lived before, the Philippines, none of the above applied. Electricity was 16 cents a kw/h, the power was very iffy, and so was the internet. (Paragraph) I think the price of graphic cards may start dropping in the future. Bitmain, the prime manufacture of application specific mining systems has started adding more flexible versions at pretty good prices. So these new units can mine many coins that earlier asic style miners could not. They can do it at a much higher rate and a great profit. That will take a lot of the pressure off the graphic card sector, maybe? If so, the price of GPU's should start to come back down to the MSR and not be the not-so-petty robbery price they are today.
Turkey bacon is not really bacon. Pork jowl, pork belly, pork something ... slow cured, real smoke, real bacon.
Offline Tatoosh  
#14 Posted : Thursday, November 02, 2017 12:05:41 AM(UTC)
Tatoosh


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/2/2012(UTC)
Posts: 128
Man
United States
Location: ex-expat -

Thanks: 6 times
Well, I've dabbled my little toe in the mining game now. Or will shortly. I just ordered one of the new GTX 1080 ti graphics cards to replace my old AMD 2048MB ATI Radeon HD 6900. While it isn't a 'mining rig', it will be pulling down mining duties when we are not using the house computer for other duties. And if I get to game a bit, at least the graphics card will be up to it, even if my mobo and cpu aren't. My old 'beater' specs: Operating System Windows 10 Pro 64-bit CPU Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 @ 1.86GHz 40 °C Conroe 65nm Technology RAM 4.00GB Dual-Channel DDR2 @ 399MHz (6-6-6-18) Motherboard Intel Corporation DG31PR (J3E1) 46 °C Graphics Standard Monitor (1280x1024@60Hz) Standard Monitor (1280x1024@60Hz) 2048MB ATI AMD Radeon HD 6900 Series (ATI) 64 °C Storage 372GB Seagate ST3400832AS ATA Device (SATA) 33 °C 232GB Crucial CT250BX100SSD1 ATA Device (SSD) 27 °C Optical Drives No optical disk drives detected Audio Realtek High Definition Audio NOTE: My wife insisted I order the card now. This is a 180 degree turn for expenditures on computers for her. Before it was, "Do you really need that? Our computer works fine!" but after watching some youtube videos on mining and looking at the payouts ... last payday she said, "Order something now!"

Edited by user Thursday, November 02, 2017 10:53:26 PM(UTC)  | Reason: PostScript Note

Turkey bacon is not really bacon. Pork jowl, pork belly, pork something ... slow cured, real smoke, real bacon.
Offline digitaldd  
#15 Posted : Friday, November 03, 2017 9:15:55 AM(UTC)
digitaldd


Rank: Advanced Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/2/2001(UTC)
Posts: 3,022
Man
Location: United States, New York

Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 7 time(s) in 7 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Tatoosh Go to Quoted Post
NOTE: My wife insisted I order the card now. This is a 180 degree turn for expenditures on computers for her. Before it was, "Do you really need that? Our computer works fine!" but after watching some youtube videos on mining and looking at the payouts ... last payday she said, "Order something now!"
Kudos for having the wife onboard. But most peoples experiences with mining are that its hard to make any money on your own and you need to join a decent sized pool in order to have a constant stream of income in small amounts (a few $$ a day vs a few thousand once or twice in a lifetime) vs. you finding one coin yourself after 4-8 years of mining.
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2017, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.995 seconds.