NVIDIA GeForce GTX 480: GF100 Has Landed

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It was because of this little graph they released around 4 months ago....

nvidia_fermi_slide_06a.jpg.aspx

We were promised something spectacular...the hype was a let down.

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Well, I'm glad I didn't have to learn my lesson this go around. I was very excited about the GF100's. But now look, my allegiance has respectively turned to ATI. 

I will give Nvidia another chance, but I will forever be skeptical. 

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3vi1 replied on Sun, Mar 28 2010 7:25 PM

VERY interesting, Bob! I did have a multi-monitor Linux setup with my ATi 9600XT years ago, but that's the last ATi card I purchased. As per your experience, I had to edit the XF86Config file (it was pre-XOrg, in my case). ATI's Linux driver's *really* sucked when I first went to Linux on that system, but I saw them improve quite a bit over it's lifetime.

I hear the open source ATI drivers are actually progressing well too. They might not be very good for 3D gaming, but at least, they're further along than the Nouveau drivers.

What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?

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RyuGTX:

Do you have a link to support that? I'm curious because like we saw in the review, Crossfire scaling wasn't that great. I figured 5770 in Crossfire would be around the performance of a 5850. Maybe better, but not near the performance of a 5870, which is area the the GTX 480 is at.

That would be the Legion Hardware review of this card.  A few of the highlights... (writen as "Test" "GTX 480 results" "5770CF results" @ 1920x1200)

Futuremark Vantage:  10,673  /  10,034
Batman: 178 / 178
Battlefield BC2: 50 / 49
CoD MW2: 128 / 134
Company of Heroes OF: 138 / 117
Crysis: 60 / 37 (I will give it to the GTX 480, it runs Crysis really well)
Dawn of War II: 75 / 52
Farcry 2: 78 / 52
H.A.W.X.:  109 / 103
Resident Evil 5:  107 / 114
Stalker CoP:  88 / 88
World in Conflict SA:  66 / 56
Wolfenstein: 110 / 107

So the 4770 CF losses in a few areas but in most things keeps up.  Bumping the res up actually closes the gap.

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realneil replied on Sun, Mar 28 2010 9:50 PM

Here is the link he refers to.

I think I'll just buy another 5850 and crossfire them. Should work well.

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RyuGTX replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 12:59 AM

Thanks for the link. In some of the games, the GTX 480 performs well; most of the games I care about too. But on average, I guess they are pretty close. Almost makes me want to go with that setup rather than a GTX 480 or even a 5870. Just Crossfire 5770 or 5830 if you can find a good deal (like mail-in rebates). Interesting....

 

gibbersome:

It was because of this little graph they released around 4 months ago....

nvidia_fermi_slide_06a.jpg.aspx

We were promised something spectacular...the hype was a let down.

As far as the graph goes, you got that performance. Almost 50% in HH's review in the Heaven benchmark. Maybe if a game came out that made heavy use of DX11, you might see a gap like that. Who knows, we'll just have to wait for that game. Crysis 2?

 

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realneil replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 9:31 AM

RyuGTX:
Thanks for the link

You're welcome.

Here's one where they review the card and even overclock it a little during the testing.

They seem to like it's performance results. Confused

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That review is almost laughable in some ways realneil.  The GTX 295 beat the GTX 480 (including their OC results) in every test.  Not to meantion that they list power consumption as a Pro.  Seriously?!  We are talking about a card that pulls more than Cross Fire configrations and runs hot enough to cook the rest of your computer.

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realneil replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 10:11 AM

InfinityzeN:
The GTX 295 beat the GTX 480

I thought that the GTX 295 is a dual graphics processor?

If so, then why wouldn't it beat a single?

The dual Radeon beat it too,..........Anyway, I'm not promoting this card at all. I think it's price/performance figures are way off of what we all expected.

My 2GB EVGA GTX-285 is working wonderfully, and the 1GB XFX Radeon HD5850 is too. As I said in an earlier post, I'll probably just get another 5850 and run crossfire while waiting for the next 'Holy-Grail' to be released. This one doesn't do it for me.

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I wonder how the folks over at the green camp are reacting to all the mixed reactions their new baby is getting. Seems to me that negative or at the very least, unenthusiastic reactions outweigh positive ones. Is it possible that Nvidia knows exactly what they're doing and has some sort of sinister marketing plan?! lol

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gibbersome replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 10:32 AM

The GTX480 scales better than the ATI 5000 series. It overclocks on par with the ATI 5870 series as well, giving around a 5-7% performance boost in most cases. But again there's the heat, noise and power issues to deal with, especially if you're planning a multi-GPU config...not to mention the price tag. Two GTX480's will run you $1,000.

It's important to keep in mind that the GTX480 has a lot of hardware tessellation power that is largely untapped in most of the benchmarks. Before any games come out that can take advantage of this, we'll see fully functional GF100 cards with much better performance, heat dissipation and factory OCs.

Again, my suggestion is save your money and wait till Nvidia works out the kinks in the GTX400 series.

Oh and the GTX470...performs close to the ATI 5850, but the additional heat, noise, power and price make it largely irrelevant. You can get a 5870 for a few bucks more.

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The GTX 295 is a dual card yes.  That cost in the same price range ($500~600) and has close to the same power envelope/heat.

The fact that the GTX 295 is a dual does not matter except for saying you have the fastest "Video Chip".  People don't buy video chips, they buy video cards.  When your top of the line from the last generation cost about as much as your newest top of the line, while performing faster, that is not a good thing.

Due to its high heat and power requirements, I do not see a 400 series dual card coming out until the respin.  That will be sometime around the end of the year most likely.  Granted, their 512 card will be a little faster then the GTX 480 (We are still only talking about a 6.67% increase in processing and memory bandwidth though).

I personally have a GTX 285 in my rig as well.  It has been a rock solid and dependable card.  However, with all the trade-offs I do not see myself putting a 400 series card into my rig.  After all, it is micro atx.

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recoveringknowitall:

I wonder how the folks over at the green camp are reacting to all the mixed reactions their new baby is getting. Seems to me that negative or at the very least, unenthusiastic reactions outweigh positive ones. Is it possible that Nvidia knows exactly what they're doing and has some sort of sinister marketing plan?! lol

I don't think so. I think they just had a lot of issues with manufacturing and are playing catch up. 

Also Hardocp reviews graphics cards weird. I personally am not a fan of their reviews. My motherboard (Intel Bonetrail 2) they gave a really bad review and gave another review of a gigabyte board with the exact same issues a great review. The bonetrail board even did better in overclocking, but they praised the gigabyte board on overclocking and slammed the intel board for its poor overclocking. Same priced boards. When people started saying this not even in a bad way, just pointed it out, they started deleting the posts and banning people. We all caught up in the eXtremesystems forums about it.  The only reviews I trust from them are PSU reviews. Kyle is a cool dude and I have talked to him a few times, but he is hot headed and I find the site hard to trust.

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gibbersome replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 10:41 AM

recoveringknowitall:

I wonder how the folks over at the green camp are reacting to all the mixed reactions their new baby is getting. Seems to me that negative or at the very least, unenthusiastic reactions outweigh positive ones. Is it possible that Nvidia knows exactly what they're doing and has some sort of sinister marketing plan?! lol

 

Their marketing department has some work to do, that's for sure. The reception has been mixed, mostly tepid. Certainly not the "bang" that ATI produced 7 months ago.

This card blows a lot of heat, I don't know how it's going to work out as a mobile solution.

 

bob_on_the_cob:

I don't think so. I think they just had a lot of issues with manufacturing and are playing catch up. 

Also Hardocp reviews graphics cards weird. I personally am not a fan of their reviews. My motherboard (Intel Bonetrail 2) they gave a really bad review and gave another review of a gigabyte board with the exact same issues a great review. The bonetrail board even did better in overclocking, but they praised the gigabyte board on overclocking and slammed the intel board for its poor overclocking. Same priced boards. When people started saying this not even in a bad way, just pointed it out, they started deleting the posts and banning people. We all caught up in the eXtremesystems forums about it.  The only reviews I trust from them are PSU reviews. Kyle is a cool dude and I have talked to him a few times, but he is hot headed and I find the site hard to trust.

 

HardOCP: -> Negative "Overall, GF100 hasn’t exactly delivered. I think we were all hoping it would provide a substantial gameplay improvement over the Radeon HD 5870 and Radeon HD 5850."

AnandTech: -> Neutral "Bigger than price though is the tradeoff for going with the GTX 480 and its much bigger GPU – it’s hotter, it’s noisier, and it’s more power hungry, all for 10-15% more performance"

OverclockersClub: -> Positive "All things considered, NVIDIA stepped up to the plate (albeit rather late) and delivered gaming performance with visual quality."

Guru3D: -> Positive "The performance is grand and impressive and well, it's just a sick card to play all modern games with at any resolution or image quality preference."

TechSpot: -> Negative "The GeForce GTX 480 is fast but given the extra time Nvidia had to work on the card and tweak it to perfection, we would have at least expected to do without the heat/power compromises."

HardwareCanucks: -> Neutral "The GTX 480 isn’t necessarily a resounding success but we consider it to be a good stepping stone towards some much needed competition in the DX11 marketplace"

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JoelB replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 10:44 AM

Out of curiosity, do we know if/when the lower end Fermi cards will hit? That's what I'm more interested in. I've never paid more than $200 for a video card, and I don't think upgrading my current card will change that.

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realneil replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 10:58 AM

bob_on_the_cob:
he is hot headed and I find the site hard to trust

I just found the review whilst looking around on the net. I don't have much experience with them either. I used to swear by Tom's Hardware reviews, but they got a major slant to their site and I stopped going there. I usually 'Google' a new part's name and read the review sites that pop up.

I found a few reviews about my Intel DP55KG board that knocked it around and said it had lackluster performance. In real life, this is just not true. I read a few reviews about my EVGA GTX-285 being a card with problems,.....not true in my case. It's wonderful to game with.

If I see allot of negative reviews about a certain part, then I'll shy away from it. Allot of great reviews mean that I'll consider it for myself if I'm in the market.

The reviews concerning this new GTX480 aren't bad, but they aren't so great either.

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slugbug replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 12:12 PM

Like the Will Shakespeare play: Much ado about nothing :(

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la_guy_10 replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 3:13 PM

After reading the review Nvidia did do well, but I expected more of a whopping than what I saw. Having said that, as drivers mature we could see performance increase. But to ATI's favor they do have a 6 month lead over Nvidia. Still Ii's still good to finally see Fermi released as now prices might come in.Geeked

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realneil replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 5:18 PM

la_guy_10:
After reading the review Nvidia did do well,..........

I can only see one real world advantage to having one of these cards. It will do Direct-X11 AND Phys-X processing too. Said advantage either increases or decreases according to how much adaptation in games Phys-X enjoys in the future. I know NVIDIA is pushing it as one of the next great things, but it's propitiatory at this point. If it's so good, they should open it up for real, unhampered development to benefit all of us.

If they're able to refine the entire  platform to run cooler and deliver that 'Holy Grail' performance without spinning my electric meter like a top, then they'll deserve to succeed with it.

DX-11 will certainly be with us, but both major players support that now, so it's not an issue unless one company does it allot better than the other.

These are interesting times, and I'm looking forward to seeing how the situation develops in the next six months or so,.............


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RyuGTX replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 5:40 PM

Thanks for the additional links.

One interesting thing I found out from the Overclockers Club review was that there is a DX11 game by the name of Metro 2033. Not sure how much it utilizes DX11, but the GTX 480 seems to shine (if only a little bit brighter) in this test compared to the 5870 than in other benchmarks. So like gibbersome mentioned, this card would fare better in benchmarks that heavily utilize tessellation, a DX11 feature.

 

JoelB:

Out of curiosity, do we know if/when the lower end Fermi cards will hit? That's what I'm more interested in. I've never paid more than $200 for a video card, and I don't think upgrading my current card will change that.

 

I don't think there has been any announcement of the lower end Fermi cards. But seeing how their top of the line performed, I would advise you to just get an ATI card. Either the 5770 or 5830. You maybe be able to catch a nice deal on a 5830. If not, then go with a 5770. Those are some great cards.

 

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acarzt replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 6:32 PM

Gibbersome.

That graph was actually relatively accurate. For that test.

Even in that video that was released a while back of that demo, showed the ATI card and the Nvidia card, neck and neck until tessellation kicked in and that's when the fermi card dominated. And if you don't consider double the fps a domination than I don't know what would.

Like I said though this card seems to be pretty great with DX11. I'd like to see more DX11 benchs..... but of course... there's really very few games out there for DX11.

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realneil replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 6:37 PM

I'd wait to see what develops over the next few months.

I'm setting aside cash right now, bit by bit and when there is enough for another 5850, I'll look at the situation again. if things are still the same as now, i'll get the second 5850 and do crossfire. I know I'll be happy with that because I don't have to have the very best solution out there.

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rapid1 replied on Tue, Mar 30 2010 12:37 AM

That is what I am thinking on right now realneil. I already had a 5850, and I won this system in the contest that came with the 5870. From what I was reading people have been crossfiring the two together. However; the only real benchmarking I could find on it the 5850 and the 5870 operating at at stock frequencies. This would cause some difficulties, not bad ones and the performance was raised pretty well. They said there was some difficulty because the 5870 is clocked over the 5850 so both cards had to work to make up for it dropping the core a bit. Why not just clock them even my 5850 is an OC with a double lifetime warranty anyway. So if I can get the 5850 oc'd a litte and the 5870 down clocked a little to where there both running in sync the performance should be better than two 5850's which seem even though it is odd to be the winning config in crossfire across the board. (not to mention a 5970 is actually 2 5850 gpu's with double the ram).

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AKwyn replied on Tue, Mar 30 2010 12:30 PM

gibbersome:

All fingers point to the fact that Nvidia felt the pressure after the success of ATI's 5000 series. This card feels rushed, and while the performance is there, the value certainly isn't.

I wouldn't say the card is headed for the trash bin though. With their lofty promises and by aiming higher, Nvidia has raised the bar for ATI.

Nvidia has informed us that the GTX480 is NOT a complete GF100 chip. A complete chip would be a 512 core organized in a 4x16x32 fashion, while these card do not have all the units activated. A GTX485/495 will unleash that power, but that maybe several months away.

I'd rather they had waited till summer and sorted out some of the temperature and power consumption issues. My advice to everyone looking for an Nvidia card is to wait. In a few months you'll be banging your head in frustration when faster and more efficient cards become available.

While I admire their dream to aim higher. They should of had this released around the same time the ATI Radeon HD 500 Series launched, but instead they delayed it and ATI got most of the DX11 market rounded up right now. Also you think with the delays and stuff, they would figure out a way to make the GPU more efficient and cool. Instead they focused on higher performance and beating ATI with a slight performance gain. If this was truly revolutionary then there should be a massive jump of performance. This thing is like the Pentium D, It's hot, inefficient and even though it's got special features, it's not worth the hassles then a more efficient CPU will bring you.

If they had worked on making a more efficient GPU then maybe it would use all 512 cores organized in a 4x16x32 fashion. Even when the 485/495 is released. It will beat the 5870 by a stretch but it will still be only 10-20 FPS faster then the ATI Radeon HD 5970.

 

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in_sOmniac replied on Tue, Mar 30 2010 12:46 PM

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realneil replied on Tue, Mar 30 2010 1:14 PM

in_sOmniac:

Funny as can be! LOL!

Thanks for sharing that.

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THAT IS THE BEST POST EVER!

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rapid1 replied on Tue, Mar 30 2010 1:26 PM

I have the benchmarks in my account on DX11 with normal Tesselation as well as all other options on the system I won (5870) in my account files "Benchmark's". It is all at stock speeds "Normal" with all options on at 4X. I had bought a 5850 (the only real upgrade it had) for my previous system and am going to Crossfire the 5870 w/the 5850 and try to up and down clock them to be the same speeds as I have heard that the difference in speeds causes some difficulties. I also am hoping this will also help with heat issues of running crossfire we will see where it goes. I may have to add the 60mm x2 optional fans which run directly next to the cards and above the PSU cage!

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Maybe replace your motherboard with one support Lucid Hydra? Nvidia's 90% scaling is simple awesome. ATI is going to have to respond and improve the efficiency of Crossfire substantially or risk losing out to Nvidia in the long run.

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3vi1 replied on Tue, Mar 30 2010 6:01 PM

HILARIOUS, In_somniac!

What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?

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Inspector replied on Tue, Mar 30 2010 6:25 PM

Im cooking myself a hamburger with bacon :P lol, But hey it saves you the money on extra gas/energy and a pan/stove Wink

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I upgraded my gateway m685e workstation from vista to windows 7. Later, I downgraded the video card drivers downloaded from windows update to the vista compatible drivers on the nvidia website. Rumor is the vista compatible drivers were not powering the fan after a reboot resulting in many dead gpus. I am blind and have already lost an IT job for lack of a working laptop.

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3vi1 replied on Wed, Apr 7 2010 8:03 AM

canyon1985:

I upgraded my gateway m685e workstation from vista to windows 7. Later, I downgraded the video card drivers downloaded from windows update to the vista compatible drivers on the nvidia website. Rumor is the vista compatible drivers were not powering the fan after a reboot resulting in many dead gpus. I am blind and have already lost an IT job for lack of a working laptop.

I'm not sure if there's an off-topic question in there or what, but if you updated/downgraded your drivers via Windows Update, then you never got the bad (196.75) drivers.

If what I read is true, Microsoft never had them available for download via Windows Update; you would have had to manually download them from nVidia to get them.

What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?

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It was because of this little graph they released around 4 months ago....

nvidia_fermi_slide_06a.jpg.aspx

We were promised something spectacular...the hype was a let down.

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Well, I'm glad I didn't have to learn my lesson this go around. I was very excited about the GF100's. But now look, my allegiance has respectively turned to ATI. 

I will give Nvidia another chance, but I will forever be skeptical. 

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3vi1 replied on Sun, Mar 28 2010 7:25 PM

VERY interesting, Bob! I did have a multi-monitor Linux setup with my ATi 9600XT years ago, but that's the last ATi card I purchased. As per your experience, I had to edit the XF86Config file (it was pre-XOrg, in my case). ATI's Linux driver's *really* sucked when I first went to Linux on that system, but I saw them improve quite a bit over it's lifetime.

I hear the open source ATI drivers are actually progressing well too. They might not be very good for 3D gaming, but at least, they're further along than the Nouveau drivers.

What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?

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RyuGTX:

Do you have a link to support that? I'm curious because like we saw in the review, Crossfire scaling wasn't that great. I figured 5770 in Crossfire would be around the performance of a 5850. Maybe better, but not near the performance of a 5870, which is area the the GTX 480 is at.

That would be the Legion Hardware review of this card.  A few of the highlights... (writen as "Test" "GTX 480 results" "5770CF results" @ 1920x1200)

Futuremark Vantage:  10,673  /  10,034
Batman: 178 / 178
Battlefield BC2: 50 / 49
CoD MW2: 128 / 134
Company of Heroes OF: 138 / 117
Crysis: 60 / 37 (I will give it to the GTX 480, it runs Crysis really well)
Dawn of War II: 75 / 52
Farcry 2: 78 / 52
H.A.W.X.:  109 / 103
Resident Evil 5:  107 / 114
Stalker CoP:  88 / 88
World in Conflict SA:  66 / 56
Wolfenstein: 110 / 107

So the 4770 CF losses in a few areas but in most things keeps up.  Bumping the res up actually closes the gap.

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realneil replied on Sun, Mar 28 2010 9:50 PM

Here is the link he refers to.

I think I'll just buy another 5850 and crossfire them. Should work well.

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RyuGTX replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 12:59 AM

Thanks for the link. In some of the games, the GTX 480 performs well; most of the games I care about too. But on average, I guess they are pretty close. Almost makes me want to go with that setup rather than a GTX 480 or even a 5870. Just Crossfire 5770 or 5830 if you can find a good deal (like mail-in rebates). Interesting....

 

gibbersome:

It was because of this little graph they released around 4 months ago....

nvidia_fermi_slide_06a.jpg.aspx

We were promised something spectacular...the hype was a let down.

As far as the graph goes, you got that performance. Almost 50% in HH's review in the Heaven benchmark. Maybe if a game came out that made heavy use of DX11, you might see a gap like that. Who knows, we'll just have to wait for that game. Crysis 2?

 

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realneil replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 9:31 AM

RyuGTX:
Thanks for the link

You're welcome.

Here's one where they review the card and even overclock it a little during the testing.

They seem to like it's performance results. Confused

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That review is almost laughable in some ways realneil.  The GTX 295 beat the GTX 480 (including their OC results) in every test.  Not to meantion that they list power consumption as a Pro.  Seriously?!  We are talking about a card that pulls more than Cross Fire configrations and runs hot enough to cook the rest of your computer.

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realneil replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 10:11 AM

InfinityzeN:
The GTX 295 beat the GTX 480

I thought that the GTX 295 is a dual graphics processor?

If so, then why wouldn't it beat a single?

The dual Radeon beat it too,..........Anyway, I'm not promoting this card at all. I think it's price/performance figures are way off of what we all expected.

My 2GB EVGA GTX-285 is working wonderfully, and the 1GB XFX Radeon HD5850 is too. As I said in an earlier post, I'll probably just get another 5850 and run crossfire while waiting for the next 'Holy-Grail' to be released. This one doesn't do it for me.

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I wonder how the folks over at the green camp are reacting to all the mixed reactions their new baby is getting. Seems to me that negative or at the very least, unenthusiastic reactions outweigh positive ones. Is it possible that Nvidia knows exactly what they're doing and has some sort of sinister marketing plan?! lol

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gibbersome replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 10:32 AM

The GTX480 scales better than the ATI 5000 series. It overclocks on par with the ATI 5870 series as well, giving around a 5-7% performance boost in most cases. But again there's the heat, noise and power issues to deal with, especially if you're planning a multi-GPU config...not to mention the price tag. Two GTX480's will run you $1,000.

It's important to keep in mind that the GTX480 has a lot of hardware tessellation power that is largely untapped in most of the benchmarks. Before any games come out that can take advantage of this, we'll see fully functional GF100 cards with much better performance, heat dissipation and factory OCs.

Again, my suggestion is save your money and wait till Nvidia works out the kinks in the GTX400 series.

Oh and the GTX470...performs close to the ATI 5850, but the additional heat, noise, power and price make it largely irrelevant. You can get a 5870 for a few bucks more.

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The GTX 295 is a dual card yes.  That cost in the same price range ($500~600) and has close to the same power envelope/heat.

The fact that the GTX 295 is a dual does not matter except for saying you have the fastest "Video Chip".  People don't buy video chips, they buy video cards.  When your top of the line from the last generation cost about as much as your newest top of the line, while performing faster, that is not a good thing.

Due to its high heat and power requirements, I do not see a 400 series dual card coming out until the respin.  That will be sometime around the end of the year most likely.  Granted, their 512 card will be a little faster then the GTX 480 (We are still only talking about a 6.67% increase in processing and memory bandwidth though).

I personally have a GTX 285 in my rig as well.  It has been a rock solid and dependable card.  However, with all the trade-offs I do not see myself putting a 400 series card into my rig.  After all, it is micro atx.

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recoveringknowitall:

I wonder how the folks over at the green camp are reacting to all the mixed reactions their new baby is getting. Seems to me that negative or at the very least, unenthusiastic reactions outweigh positive ones. Is it possible that Nvidia knows exactly what they're doing and has some sort of sinister marketing plan?! lol

I don't think so. I think they just had a lot of issues with manufacturing and are playing catch up. 

Also Hardocp reviews graphics cards weird. I personally am not a fan of their reviews. My motherboard (Intel Bonetrail 2) they gave a really bad review and gave another review of a gigabyte board with the exact same issues a great review. The bonetrail board even did better in overclocking, but they praised the gigabyte board on overclocking and slammed the intel board for its poor overclocking. Same priced boards. When people started saying this not even in a bad way, just pointed it out, they started deleting the posts and banning people. We all caught up in the eXtremesystems forums about it.  The only reviews I trust from them are PSU reviews. Kyle is a cool dude and I have talked to him a few times, but he is hot headed and I find the site hard to trust.

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gibbersome replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 10:41 AM

recoveringknowitall:

I wonder how the folks over at the green camp are reacting to all the mixed reactions their new baby is getting. Seems to me that negative or at the very least, unenthusiastic reactions outweigh positive ones. Is it possible that Nvidia knows exactly what they're doing and has some sort of sinister marketing plan?! lol

 

Their marketing department has some work to do, that's for sure. The reception has been mixed, mostly tepid. Certainly not the "bang" that ATI produced 7 months ago.

This card blows a lot of heat, I don't know how it's going to work out as a mobile solution.

 

bob_on_the_cob:

I don't think so. I think they just had a lot of issues with manufacturing and are playing catch up. 

Also Hardocp reviews graphics cards weird. I personally am not a fan of their reviews. My motherboard (Intel Bonetrail 2) they gave a really bad review and gave another review of a gigabyte board with the exact same issues a great review. The bonetrail board even did better in overclocking, but they praised the gigabyte board on overclocking and slammed the intel board for its poor overclocking. Same priced boards. When people started saying this not even in a bad way, just pointed it out, they started deleting the posts and banning people. We all caught up in the eXtremesystems forums about it.  The only reviews I trust from them are PSU reviews. Kyle is a cool dude and I have talked to him a few times, but he is hot headed and I find the site hard to trust.

 

HardOCP: -> Negative "Overall, GF100 hasn’t exactly delivered. I think we were all hoping it would provide a substantial gameplay improvement over the Radeon HD 5870 and Radeon HD 5850."

AnandTech: -> Neutral "Bigger than price though is the tradeoff for going with the GTX 480 and its much bigger GPU – it’s hotter, it’s noisier, and it’s more power hungry, all for 10-15% more performance"

OverclockersClub: -> Positive "All things considered, NVIDIA stepped up to the plate (albeit rather late) and delivered gaming performance with visual quality."

Guru3D: -> Positive "The performance is grand and impressive and well, it's just a sick card to play all modern games with at any resolution or image quality preference."

TechSpot: -> Negative "The GeForce GTX 480 is fast but given the extra time Nvidia had to work on the card and tweak it to perfection, we would have at least expected to do without the heat/power compromises."

HardwareCanucks: -> Neutral "The GTX 480 isn’t necessarily a resounding success but we consider it to be a good stepping stone towards some much needed competition in the DX11 marketplace"

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JoelB replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 10:44 AM

Out of curiosity, do we know if/when the lower end Fermi cards will hit? That's what I'm more interested in. I've never paid more than $200 for a video card, and I don't think upgrading my current card will change that.

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realneil replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 10:58 AM

bob_on_the_cob:
he is hot headed and I find the site hard to trust

I just found the review whilst looking around on the net. I don't have much experience with them either. I used to swear by Tom's Hardware reviews, but they got a major slant to their site and I stopped going there. I usually 'Google' a new part's name and read the review sites that pop up.

I found a few reviews about my Intel DP55KG board that knocked it around and said it had lackluster performance. In real life, this is just not true. I read a few reviews about my EVGA GTX-285 being a card with problems,.....not true in my case. It's wonderful to game with.

If I see allot of negative reviews about a certain part, then I'll shy away from it. Allot of great reviews mean that I'll consider it for myself if I'm in the market.

The reviews concerning this new GTX480 aren't bad, but they aren't so great either.

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slugbug replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 12:12 PM

Like the Will Shakespeare play: Much ado about nothing :(

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la_guy_10 replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 3:13 PM

After reading the review Nvidia did do well, but I expected more of a whopping than what I saw. Having said that, as drivers mature we could see performance increase. But to ATI's favor they do have a 6 month lead over Nvidia. Still Ii's still good to finally see Fermi released as now prices might come in.Geeked

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realneil replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 5:18 PM

la_guy_10:
After reading the review Nvidia did do well,..........

I can only see one real world advantage to having one of these cards. It will do Direct-X11 AND Phys-X processing too. Said advantage either increases or decreases according to how much adaptation in games Phys-X enjoys in the future. I know NVIDIA is pushing it as one of the next great things, but it's propitiatory at this point. If it's so good, they should open it up for real, unhampered development to benefit all of us.

If they're able to refine the entire  platform to run cooler and deliver that 'Holy Grail' performance without spinning my electric meter like a top, then they'll deserve to succeed with it.

DX-11 will certainly be with us, but both major players support that now, so it's not an issue unless one company does it allot better than the other.

These are interesting times, and I'm looking forward to seeing how the situation develops in the next six months or so,.............


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RyuGTX replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 5:40 PM

Thanks for the additional links.

One interesting thing I found out from the Overclockers Club review was that there is a DX11 game by the name of Metro 2033. Not sure how much it utilizes DX11, but the GTX 480 seems to shine (if only a little bit brighter) in this test compared to the 5870 than in other benchmarks. So like gibbersome mentioned, this card would fare better in benchmarks that heavily utilize tessellation, a DX11 feature.

 

JoelB:

Out of curiosity, do we know if/when the lower end Fermi cards will hit? That's what I'm more interested in. I've never paid more than $200 for a video card, and I don't think upgrading my current card will change that.

 

I don't think there has been any announcement of the lower end Fermi cards. But seeing how their top of the line performed, I would advise you to just get an ATI card. Either the 5770 or 5830. You maybe be able to catch a nice deal on a 5830. If not, then go with a 5770. Those are some great cards.

 

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acarzt replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 6:32 PM

Gibbersome.

That graph was actually relatively accurate. For that test.

Even in that video that was released a while back of that demo, showed the ATI card and the Nvidia card, neck and neck until tessellation kicked in and that's when the fermi card dominated. And if you don't consider double the fps a domination than I don't know what would.

Like I said though this card seems to be pretty great with DX11. I'd like to see more DX11 benchs..... but of course... there's really very few games out there for DX11.

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realneil replied on Mon, Mar 29 2010 6:37 PM

I'd wait to see what develops over the next few months.

I'm setting aside cash right now, bit by bit and when there is enough for another 5850, I'll look at the situation again. if things are still the same as now, i'll get the second 5850 and do crossfire. I know I'll be happy with that because I don't have to have the very best solution out there.

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rapid1 replied on Tue, Mar 30 2010 12:37 AM

That is what I am thinking on right now realneil. I already had a 5850, and I won this system in the contest that came with the 5870. From what I was reading people have been crossfiring the two together. However; the only real benchmarking I could find on it the 5850 and the 5870 operating at at stock frequencies. This would cause some difficulties, not bad ones and the performance was raised pretty well. They said there was some difficulty because the 5870 is clocked over the 5850 so both cards had to work to make up for it dropping the core a bit. Why not just clock them even my 5850 is an OC with a double lifetime warranty anyway. So if I can get the 5850 oc'd a litte and the 5870 down clocked a little to where there both running in sync the performance should be better than two 5850's which seem even though it is odd to be the winning config in crossfire across the board. (not to mention a 5970 is actually 2 5850 gpu's with double the ram).

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AKwyn replied on Tue, Mar 30 2010 12:30 PM

gibbersome:

All fingers point to the fact that Nvidia felt the pressure after the success of ATI's 5000 series. This card feels rushed, and while the performance is there, the value certainly isn't.

I wouldn't say the card is headed for the trash bin though. With their lofty promises and by aiming higher, Nvidia has raised the bar for ATI.

Nvidia has informed us that the GTX480 is NOT a complete GF100 chip. A complete chip would be a 512 core organized in a 4x16x32 fashion, while these card do not have all the units activated. A GTX485/495 will unleash that power, but that maybe several months away.

I'd rather they had waited till summer and sorted out some of the temperature and power consumption issues. My advice to everyone looking for an Nvidia card is to wait. In a few months you'll be banging your head in frustration when faster and more efficient cards become available.

While I admire their dream to aim higher. They should of had this released around the same time the ATI Radeon HD 500 Series launched, but instead they delayed it and ATI got most of the DX11 market rounded up right now. Also you think with the delays and stuff, they would figure out a way to make the GPU more efficient and cool. Instead they focused on higher performance and beating ATI with a slight performance gain. If this was truly revolutionary then there should be a massive jump of performance. This thing is like the Pentium D, It's hot, inefficient and even though it's got special features, it's not worth the hassles then a more efficient CPU will bring you.

If they had worked on making a more efficient GPU then maybe it would use all 512 cores organized in a 4x16x32 fashion. Even when the 485/495 is released. It will beat the 5870 by a stretch but it will still be only 10-20 FPS faster then the ATI Radeon HD 5970.

 

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in_sOmniac replied on Tue, Mar 30 2010 12:46 PM

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realneil replied on Tue, Mar 30 2010 1:14 PM

in_sOmniac:

Funny as can be! LOL!

Thanks for sharing that.

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THAT IS THE BEST POST EVER!

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rapid1 replied on Tue, Mar 30 2010 1:26 PM

I have the benchmarks in my account on DX11 with normal Tesselation as well as all other options on the system I won (5870) in my account files "Benchmark's". It is all at stock speeds "Normal" with all options on at 4X. I had bought a 5850 (the only real upgrade it had) for my previous system and am going to Crossfire the 5870 w/the 5850 and try to up and down clock them to be the same speeds as I have heard that the difference in speeds causes some difficulties. I also am hoping this will also help with heat issues of running crossfire we will see where it goes. I may have to add the 60mm x2 optional fans which run directly next to the cards and above the PSU cage!

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Maybe replace your motherboard with one support Lucid Hydra? Nvidia's 90% scaling is simple awesome. ATI is going to have to respond and improve the efficiency of Crossfire substantially or risk losing out to Nvidia in the long run.

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3vi1 replied on Tue, Mar 30 2010 6:01 PM

HILARIOUS, In_somniac!

What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?

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Inspector replied on Tue, Mar 30 2010 6:25 PM

Im cooking myself a hamburger with bacon :P lol, But hey it saves you the money on extra gas/energy and a pan/stove Wink

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I upgraded my gateway m685e workstation from vista to windows 7. Later, I downgraded the video card drivers downloaded from windows update to the vista compatible drivers on the nvidia website. Rumor is the vista compatible drivers were not powering the fan after a reboot resulting in many dead gpus. I am blind and have already lost an IT job for lack of a working laptop.

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3vi1 replied on Wed, Apr 7 2010 8:03 AM

canyon1985:

I upgraded my gateway m685e workstation from vista to windows 7. Later, I downgraded the video card drivers downloaded from windows update to the vista compatible drivers on the nvidia website. Rumor is the vista compatible drivers were not powering the fan after a reboot resulting in many dead gpus. I am blind and have already lost an IT job for lack of a working laptop.

I'm not sure if there's an off-topic question in there or what, but if you updated/downgraded your drivers via Windows Update, then you never got the bad (196.75) drivers.

If what I read is true, Microsoft never had them available for download via Windows Update; you would have had to manually download them from nVidia to get them.

What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?

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