PC gaming, dying?

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Crisis Causer Posted: Thu, Mar 20 2008 4:35 PM


http://www.actiontrip.com/rei/comments_news.phtml?id=032008_8

Reminds me of then Cliffy B (Epic Games guy) said he prefers consoles to develop for.  If you look at sales, Crysis didn't do too hot and Call of Duty 4 is selling magnitudes better on the consoles (although I bought it for PC).

I think 2007 was a tremendous year for PC gaming.  Bioshock, Call of Duty 4, Crysis, Orange Box, The Witcher.  But 3 of these came out on the consoles too.  And honestly, I can't think of any future PC games I am interested in.  Bioshock 2 and HL2: Episode 3 are probably the only ones.  Alan Wake looks boring gameplay wise.  I have a 360 and it gets use sometimes, though admittingly not as much as it should considering the cost.  I also play my friend's Wii.

PC is always my platform of choice for FPSs and RTSs.  The mouse is much more precise for shooters and is needed for RTSs outright.  It won't die ever completely and I'll always buy certain FPSs for it, but anyone think it isn't the best platform of choice for gamers?

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PC is always my platform of choice for FPSs and RTSs.  The mouse is much more precise for shooters and is needed for RTSs outright.  It won't die ever completely and I'll always buy certain FPSs for

I completely agree... to me, a PC is the only true system to play games like CoD4, HL, and other FPS and RTS games... you can't have the same satisfaction playing Starcraft on an xbox as you can on PC!

I don't think PC will die, but unfortunately, companies like what can make more money... which happens to be consoles... I've never gotten any satisfaction from consoles (except Rayman on the Wii... I love beaten up those rabbits).... so LONG LIVE PC GAMING!

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trueg50 replied on Thu, Mar 20 2008 7:40 PM

 If you want a complicated game, go with a PC, shoot-em ups are usually done on consoles.

 

I feel that the primary issue in PC gaming is the idiocy of anti-piracy software.

 

If a company makes a good game, I will buy it, they earned my money, if they load a game with securom crap and sacrifice game play for it, then they don't diserve my time or money.

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frg1 replied on Thu, Mar 20 2008 8:47 PM

pc games are the only real games to me

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replied on Fri, Mar 21 2008 8:06 AM

look back 4-5 years ago!How many good games were released each year?I tell you...a lot.Now we see a lot of 450mb-1GB games,good to go to the trash-can and the rest of the games are the same like the games that were launched in the past,only with better graphics and the people that bought and played those,get bored very quick by these or they don't even buy them

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vicaphit replied on Fri, Mar 21 2008 1:44 PM

PC gaming will never die, only dwindle.  All of us enthusiasts will continue to build better and better computers, and buy PC games (probably mostly games that come out on consoles and PC). I don't care if Xbox owners have the same game I do, I will always know that mine looks better, and has more options control wise.

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frg1 replied on Fri, Mar 21 2008 2:05 PM

 and when microsoft fully intergrates online play between xbox 360 and pc we will take pride in pwning them all the time

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replied on Fri, Mar 21 2008 3:53 PM

any idea why we haven't seen any battle game like mortal kombat 4 develop for so many years?

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trueg50 replied on Fri, Mar 21 2008 4:12 PM

 We've seen many great fighting games since MK, only thing is you can't really do that muh ground breaking stuff with them, and they have faded away quite a bit.

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frg1 replied on Fri, Mar 21 2008 4:15 PM

 probably the controls

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Fighting games on a PC would require a gamepad or arcade stick.  I've tried fighting games with the keyboard, and it doesn't work so hot.  I'm sure that's not stopping any development, but the lack of an audience is.  Everyone who really likes fighting games plays them on consoles.

Playstation 2 is only $130 new, much less used.  It still has the newest iterations of Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, King of Fighters, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Mortal Kombat, plus the second latest Virtua Fighter.  Many newer versions of those titles are coming out soon though, and will require a PS3.

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frg1 replied on Fri, Mar 21 2008 7:57 PM

 basicaly fps and strategy will be the main points of pc gaming

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Dev replied on Sat, Mar 22 2008 1:50 AM
trueg50:

 If you want a complicated game, go with a PC, shoot-em ups are usually done on consoles.
I feel that the primary issue in PC gaming is the idiocy of anti-piracy software
If a company makes a good game, I will buy it, they earned my money, if they load a game with securom crap and sacrifice game play for it, then they don't diserve my time or money.


I completely disagree, shooters are done best on PCs with a few exceptions. The PC has established itself as a games platform with a strong reputation for shooters and RPGs particularly MMO ones, not to mention that it almost has exclusive dominance on strategy games.

Anit-Piracy measures aren't killing the PC games industry. Serious cases of abusive anti-piracy are far and few between. Piracy is though hurting the industry somewhat. Don't get me wrong though, I believe that the producers and developers are looking for too much money, so I simply don't buy. Plus the top end new games often need powerful machines, when most PC have onboard graphics cards. For most people consoles are simpler. Simplicity sells.


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ice_73 replied on Sat, Mar 22 2008 10:34 AM

its been dying awhile pc gaming is an expensive hobby

 

cost of a "medium" gaming rig is over 1k.

cost of a xbox 360. 349....

 

many people opt for the 360. pc gamers are a hardcore group who love the games they play. i love counter-strike source and i need my mouse and keyboard.  

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AjayD replied on Sat, Mar 22 2008 10:48 AM

  PC gaming will always be popular among enthusiasts who want cutting edge performance. I think game developers prefer to design games for consoles because it's easier. They have a standard hardware profile to design for that they know will remain the same. New graphics cards come out constantly and computers become significantly more powerful every year. This fast pace makes it more difficult to decide how high to set the performance bar, so as not to alienate too many people with older systems. With the relatively low cost of a console compared to a decent gaming rig, the market for console games is far greater.

 

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MikeL_HH replied on Sat, Mar 22 2008 3:52 PM
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http://www.actiontrip.com/rei/comments_news.phtml?id=032008_8

Reminds me of then Cliffy B (Epic Games guy) said he prefers consoles to develop for.  If you look at sales, Crysis didn't do too hot and Call of Duty 4 is selling magnitudes better on the consoles (although I bought it for PC).

I think 2007 was a tremendous year for PC gaming.  Bioshock, Call of Duty 4, Crysis, Orange Box, The Witcher.  But 3 of these came out on the consoles too.  And honestly, I can't think of any future PC games I am interested in.  Bioshock 2 and HL2: Episode 3 are probably the only ones.  Alan Wake looks boring gameplay wise.  I have a 360 and it gets use sometimes, though admittingly not as much as it should considering the cost.  I also play my friend's Wii.

PC is always my platform of choice for FPSs and RTSs.  The mouse is much more precise for shooters and is needed for RTSs outright.  It won't die ever completely and I'll always buy certain FPSs for it, but anyone think it isn't the best platform of choice for gamers?

People have been hollering about PC gaming dying for ages now and frankly I ignore those people.

I read Cliffy B's complaint a while back and it seemed like he was complaining that he prefered to make high-end games with top-end graphics and then complains that the PC makes it too expensive for users to play his games with everything maxed at, as he intended it. Anyone else think that is rediculous? If he wants a larger audience on the PC, maybe he should stop focusing on making tech-demo-games. It is rediculous to serve a niche and then expect mainstream sales figures. A game doesn't need to be cutting edge to be rediculously fun or sell well. Portal is outstripping tons of big-name developers in sales and it's a simple, short, little game that is practically a HL2 mod.

Call of Duty 4 may be selling better on console, but seriously... does anyone who has tried both actually think the console experience is better than the PC version? Also, does it even make sense to compare the sales figures of ALL CONSOLES to the PC? If you look at the PC as a console, and compare it to each of the other consoles, the figures don't look that bad. My friend has COD4 on his PS3 and I think it's pretty sub-par compared to the PC experience. And I'm not talking about his console vs my rediculously tricked out gaming system with a 24" monitor and surround sound. I mean, I prefer my $1200 15.4" notebook with a 8600M GT plus a $100 pair of Sennheisers to his $2000 42" LCD + $400 PS3 + $600 sound system. A tricked out gaming rig that is more comparable, price-wise would be even better. Plus, at the end of the day I can write up a report on my notebook, or mess with photoshop or a number of other things he can't do on his console. You might say that he can watch TV on his setup at the end of the day, but I can rectify that situation with a $40 external tuner, and my setup would still cost a heck of a lot less than his.

Why do you think no one lets PC gamers play with console gamers? It's definitely not because the technology isn't available. If you let the console guys play with PC guys in any sort of 1st person shooter, the console guys would be at a monumental dissadvantage unless you gave them some aggressive auto-aim.

I also think people who look at gaming PCs as too expensive are doing the math wrong. You can't compare a $3000 gaming rig to a $400 PS3 (forgetting about expenses like the TV in the process) since the gaming rig can do a whole lot more than just play games. On the flip side, you can't exactly play a console without the TV can you? So you need to include the cost of the TV in your comparison to the cost of the PC. And a cheap-o 15" CRT TV is no where near the same experience as a big-screen HDTV. All things considered, it comes out roughly even. Just about everyone wants a computer, just like just about everyone wants a TV, so if you want to subsidize the cost of the TV in that way, you also need to shave off an appropriate amount off the cost of the gaming rig in order to have a fair comparison. In the end, what you're really looking at is the cost of a video card vs the cost of the console (without the TV and extra controllers). For the cost of a current-gen console, you can get a pretty sweet video card, so I think it works out pretty darn well. You can take your existing $500 office machine, chuck $200 worth of video card and and a $200 CPU upgrade and end up with an experience easily comparable to a $400 PS3 + your existing $400-$800 26"/32" LCD TV. Any office machine built in the last couple years should have socket AM2 or LGA775, which means it will be drop-in upgradable so you only really need to pay for a new CPU and for $200, you can get a pretty decent chip. You could argue that the average user doesn't know how to upgrade their comp, so you can factor in $100 for the Geek Squad to fiddle with your rig, and the costs still work out to be about even.

The only real advantage consoles have over PC is in-person multiplayer. The cost and experience of over-internet multiplayer on PC and console are pretty comparable, IMO. But in-person multiplayer obviously works way better on console. However, that isn't really because of some limitation of the PC. It would be entirely possible to have in-person multiplayer on a PC, except developers don't make PC games that support split-screen and multiple gamepads. Not to mention it would also be possible to enable more than one set of keyboard+mice to act independently on a PC. It's just that no one has bothered to do it. You might complain that you'd then be forced to purchase an extra set of input devices, but no console comes with more than 1 gamepad so I'd say it's pretty comparable. You can pick up a Logitech Cordless Rumblepad 2 from Newegg for $30, and it's just as good as the current crop of console controllers (not including Wii). We all know how dirt cheap a keyboard and mouse can be, not to mention a lot of people will have an old set lying around they could use.

You could also argue that the PC gaming experience isn't as sleek and unified as a console. Admittedly something like XBOX Live is a lot slicker than messing around with games, voice chat and friends list programs in the start menu. But if you care that much about a unified interface, you can just use a service like Steam. Right now, Steam has something like 500 games on it, including most of the current must-have titles, not to mention it is often cheaper than buying the retail box or the console version.

Ultimately I think it is silly that people complain about games on the PC when they only cite cost and hardware as the main problems. Both of those are non-issues these days. I also think a lot of the issues stem from a lack of innovation from developers. People point at the Wii as being so innovative, but anything you can do on a console can be done with a PC. So instead of sitting on their asses and complaining that Intel/AMD/NVIDIA/Dell/HP/etc isn't doing the innovation for them, why not get off their ass and do it themselves. Harmonix didn't complain that Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft didn't offer a guitar controller so they can make their game. They went out and designed their own.

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 I got a PS3 at the start of the year along with an HD TV as all my mates at work had done the same (theres twelve of us). Id always backed the argument that FPS on the PC will always own the console version however I have CoD4 on both (I blame peer pressure) and I have to admit I actually enjoy the PS3 version that little bit more (Ive played them through on both). Its probably simply due to the fact that none of my mates are PC gamers and this way I get to have a frag fest with them all, however there really isnt much difference between graphics (Im running an 8800GT at the mo) on either system, and I find that the slightly slower pace of the PS3 version (that is the control pad handicap) more enjoyable.

 

 Still love my PC though, and as mentioned its easy to forget what else you can do with a PC. PC gaming isnt dying it just has a diiferent focus from the mass of console users. It always has and always will.

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trueg50 replied on Sat, Mar 22 2008 10:47 PM

 Wow lovelycrap, I was going to write about some other points about how much better PC gaming is, but... well you beat me to it, and much better than I could have put it.

 

Give it a few years, the PS3 will be even more out dated, I forgot what site it was was talking about the 8800GTX's when they came out, and were saying that in SLI they were far superior to the (then) not released PS3.

 

The Wii however really hit the mark, it is what consoles will be. Consoles cannot compete with PC's power wise, just look at the PS 3. They can however be fun, easy, and some what pretty, best of all though, cheap and easy enough for everyone.

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So many developers moved from PC to consoles,it got me thinking if we are ever going to have cool games developed exclusivery for PC 

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frg1 replied on Sun, Mar 23 2008 3:07 AM

coolzonestefan:

So many developers moved from PC to consoles,it got me thinking if we are ever going to have cool games developed exclusivery for PC 

one word crysis
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Random responses: 

PS3 has about eqivalent to around a 128-bit GeForce 7800 or 7900.  Not the greatest, but considering it's paired with the Cell it can be pushed to it's limits.

I agree that CoD 4 is way better on PC than console.  Virtually all FPS's are.

Yeah, the point about split screen multiplayer is a good console advantage.  Even if Gears of War 2 launches same day for PC and 360, I'd get it for 360 because of the co-op.

You can do a lot more with PC's than consoles, but the PS3 is getting close to a PC.  Plus, the point in favour of consoles is that you still have a PC.  It's just not top of the line.  It doesn't take much to run internet and videos.

I also think a major PC advantage is the modding community.  Consoles are way too closed.  PS3 is the most open, but even it's no PC. 

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frg1 replied on Sun, Mar 23 2008 5:12 PM

good points i also read that the wii only has a 700mhz powerpc processor 

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vicaphit replied on Mon, Mar 24 2008 11:34 AM

frg1:
one word crysis

 

Crysis is PC exclusive because no console would be able to make it look decent.  If it were ported, it would look like it were outdated, which is the opposite of what the developers were aiming for.

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PC gaming has it's highs & lows, but will never truly die. Nvidia sells millions of GFX cards every year which speaks volumes about just how booming PC gaming really is.

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higgamo replied on Tue, Mar 25 2008 1:57 PM

 i think that if pc sells dont start going up we will see alot more ads in games, not the end of pc games. Makers know people are playing them so they can still make money.

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frg1 replied on Tue, Mar 25 2008 2:24 PM

vicaphit:

frg1:
one word crysis

 

Crysis is PC exclusive because no console would be able to make it look decent.  If it were ported, it would look like it were outdated, which is the opposite of what the developers were aiming for.

yeah but when they were devolping it you think they would have dulled it down a bit if they were planning a console release
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I really think that the PS3 could handle Crysis on medium, or at worst low settings if neccessary.  The amount of total RAM is limitting, but the GeForce 7800 family can run Crysis on PCs and the Cell CPU is more than powerful enough.  I believe the Crysis engine was liscensed for PS3, and there are rumours of a Crysis 1.5 or maybe a unique game with the engine, but none are confirmed iirc.

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frg1 replied on Tue, Mar 25 2008 2:28 PM

well i actually hope it stays pc exclusive because i know of people who went and upgraded thier pc instead of buying a console because of what they heard of this game and how well fps work on pc 

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vicaphit replied on Wed, Mar 26 2008 4:42 PM

Exclusive games are selling consoles.  Maybe if PCs had more exclusive games we would see more PC gamers.  Damn halo for creating a rock solid control system to keep FPS games alive on consoles.

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higgamo replied on Sat, Apr 12 2008 10:47 AM

 Hard to keep a game exclusive to pc. The sell numbers wont help with that cause, but we can wish that any ports of a pc game will have bad control making pc verison the only one worth playing =p

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prez replied on Sun, Apr 13 2008 3:41 PM

 I can't bring myself to play on a console - too much like a toy. I wait for games to be ported to the PC, and will only try them if the developer makes a reasonable effort to do a decent port job. I would rather not play at all than try to play a FPS with a gamepad.

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I just got a PS3 and while my 8800 Ultra provides better GFX, for the price consoles have their place. Video games in general are kinda like "toys" IMO anyway. A mouse & keyboard own for FPS games, but 3rd person games are nice and feel natural with a pad... I bought Uncharted with my system and like it alot!

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grayhoose replied on Wed, Apr 16 2008 5:52 PM

i'm 49 and all the kids were learning to play on them, there in there 20's now and still playing them, just a toy to me.

 

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Softix replied on Fri, Apr 18 2008 9:52 AM

 pc games are the only thing that make companies make faster computers and gaming on the computer is better then any system they can comeout with as we all know that those thing are computers so they cant really stop making games for computers or their wont be any xbox or playstation

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I've played most of the best PC FPS games to come out in the last 4-5 years as well as a few other genres and have been a fan of the PC as the ultimate platform. As I mentioned I just got a PS3 and bought Uncharted with it... I must say that Drake's Fortune is 1 of the best games I've played on any platform period. When I hear people bash consoles these days it actually aggitates me because I feel console games as of late are really evolving. Also using the word toy as though their gaming PC isn't 1 to them irritates me because they know they're just a big kid playing with their toy... nothing wrong with that!

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Incase anyone had any doubts, it appears Epic (Unreal series) will continue to release games on PC.

http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/view.php?id=3912 

Full interview:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=187565 

Glad to know we still have those powerful cards for a reason. 

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vicaphit replied on Wed, Apr 30 2008 12:24 PM

And Crytek's next masterpiece is going to be on consoles as well.

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Dev replied on Wed, Apr 30 2008 2:23 PM

As Lovely Crap mentioned the death of PC gaming is regularly speculated on. There is a shift taking place in the industry, people point to dwindling sales of games that are on PC compared to consoles like COD4 and whatnot. However look at the success of Valve's Steam games and Blizzard's World of Warcraft. Online distribution is the way forward for all digital media, PC is the harbinger of such a paradigm shift.

Comparing prices isn't a metric with huge merit. Console gaming is an expensive business aswell, anybody who tells you that gaming under XBOX 360 costs less than $500 is lying and of course anybody who says you need at least $1,500 for a PC would also be lying. The truth is factor in TV's and price of games a few other things and they are much closer together. 

The way I see it, XBOX360 is a packaged deal. It takes out a lot of the complication of PC gaming which is both good and bad.Of course don't forget that PC has been and always will have the largest user base. Even if it is some family Dell machine that daddy uses for work and email. Little Johnny can still get the Orange Box. As far as exclusive games go, well PC pretty much has the entire strategy genre and many greats that really only do work on PC even if there exists some half assed port.

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Great points dev, PC gaming includes playing pre-installed games like Hearts or Minesweeper, but like you said.  Strategy games will never be as good on consoles as they are on PC.

 I remember the day that StarCraft came out on the Nintendo 64, I loved the game on PC, but the 64 version sucked!

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