*** the NSA and Obama.
thanks for the information. loved the history part
If US citizens aren't targeted, then how does Obama explain the millions of Verizon, Sprint, AT&T, and god knows what other companies' customers who have all had their phone records and other personal information divulged to the government?
They claim this intrusive surveillance is limited in scope and attempt to support this claim through number trickery. For example, last year the Obama administration went to the secretive Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court 200 times to ask for Americans’ “business records” under the USA Patriot Act. What they fail to mention, however, is the number of people included in each request. The single request to Verizon was for information on every one of their customers (≈85 million). I expect the other 199 such requests cast equally wide nets. Limited? Hardly.
The government might not have backdoor access yet to Google, Facebook, Skype, and the like, but it is only a matter of time. If our representatives are content to trade our privacy for false promises of security, then it's time we elect people who actually have our best interests at heart.
***** Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted. *****
It's a mistake to characterize this as an Obama issue; doing so misses the point . What we have today began with the passage of the Patriot Act. Blaming Obama (or Bush) ignores the *systemic* trend. The overwhelming majority of Republicans *and+ Democrats have supported these decisions.
If you prefer the more pragmatic view, yelling about who pushed a rock down a hill doesn't help get your family out of the way.
Have to agree with Joel Hruska here ; this trend definitely predates Messrs Bush and Obama and to my mind, is more a reflection of the technical means now available to keep people under surveillance without detailing a chap in a trench coat and fedora to trail them than something that suddenly was dreamed up by a genius at the NSA ; after all, Echelon has been going on for half a century. Bruce Schneier has published a sobering article over at the Atlantic, for those who want to learn more. Thanks, Joel, for publishing this on this forum - uncomfortable, but essential reading !...
There is something we can do. Civil War. The government and all its solders are out numbers by a huge percentage. People say that America isn't that bad, but their wrong. You can't even make a phone call on a cellphone without being tracked and if you attempted to rally a few people in a place to protect even peacefully, you will handcuffed and sent to jail. Yes, it is that bad.
We need to stand together unafraid of our government and take real action. People should not fear their government, government should fear the people. And thats exactly whats happened. People are afraid to do what is necessary and the government knows this. They want you to fear them and just do as they say. How far will they take this? As far as we let them.
There is something we can do. Civil War
Yeah, let me know how that works for you. The overwhelming majority of civil wars / revolutions end in disaster. The American Revolution was a rarity, in that it produced a stable, less authoritarian government than it sought to overthrow, and achieved most of its aims in the process.
Historically, almost all revolutions create worse governments than they topple. Even if I thought revolution was viable (I don't) or desirable (nope), launching one as a means of improving life is virtually guaranteed to fail.
It is true that this trend of privacy violation and abuse of power began under the Bush administration with the Patriot Act, but that does not absolve Obama of responsibility. His most recent statements seem to endorse these programs, and he has made no attempt to dismantle the Patriot Act and the overstepping of authority made possible by it.
Unfortunately, your assessment is correct. The greater cause for concern is the overwhelming bipartisan support that these types of surveillance programs have. I suppose politicians are afraid of being seen as having failed to do everything within their power to prevent it, should another major terror event occur.
However, I refuse to allow fear to motivate my actions, and I will never be content to exchange personal liberties for hollow promises of safety. We are not omnipotent. Some things cannot be prevented, and to pretend otherwise is both arrogance and willful ignorance.
"Activities authorized by Section 702 are subject to oversight by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, the Executive Branch, and Congress. They involve extensive procedures, specifically approved by the court, to ensure that only non-U.S. persons outside the U.S. are targeted, and that minimize the acquisition, retention and dissemination of incidentally acquired information about U.S. persons."
Oh, that's nice. So it's U.S. government surveillance carte blanche in store for us bloody foreigners, is it?
My... what a treat.
We foreigners - bloody are otherwise - simply enjoy special privileges exclusively for a (short) while, before they are also brought to residents of the United States. Take drone surveillance as an example, now common place inside that country as well. I predict that drone bombing will be next. All in «our» best interests, of course....
Really how could you not know this was already happening?
Nothing new here....
Depends on what you mean by "Know."
But as I've written, my problem isn't with the capability, it's with the oversight and visibility into how that capability is used.
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