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gdeptula Posted: Tue, Nov 8 2011 4:50 AM

Hello, this is my first post so bear with me if I'm not in the correct thread :)

 

Anyway, my questions;

 

I'm an avid fan of the Elder Scrolls series of games (well, since Morrowind) and I wanted a computer for the upcoming release of Skyrim. I simply love the feel of computer gaming and had the money to treat myself. Specs are as follows:

 

AMD x6 1090T @ 3.2GHz

MSI 890FXA-GD70 mobo

2x MSI 2GB 6950 Twin Frozer II

G.Skill 8BG DDR3 1600

500GB Western Digital Caviar Black

850W Cooler Master Silent Pro M

Win 7 64-bit

 

My concern is that I'm not getting the proper amount of performance that I should be. Could it be a driver issue? Did I make a poor choice in the parts I used? I just don't know.

 

And another thing, can't seem to quite figure this out either. Whenever I start up from hibernation, it takes FAR too long. I'm talking 2-3 minutes before the password screen appears.

 

Anyway, don't mean to sound demanding, but I'm unsure and out of ideas. Figured I should go to a place where there are people that know more than me about these things.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

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AKwyn replied on Tue, Nov 8 2011 7:50 AM

gdeptula:
My concern is that I'm not getting the proper amount of performance that I should be. Could it be a driver issue? Did I make a poor choice in the parts I used? I just don't know.

Hi, first of all. Do you have the latest drivers; the AMD processor provided should power your game, the RAM is huge and the power is sufficient. I can't see anything wrong with your choice, so do you have the latest drivers? is your system full of dust/did you have your system cleaned? did you check Task Manager to see if any processes are taking up memory and CPU power? (sometimes there can be processes that can affect the performance of your system.)

gdeptula:
And another thing, can't seem to quite figure this out either. Whenever I start up from hibernation, it takes FAR too long. I'm talking 2-3 minutes before the password screen appears.

Might be a program that's taking up a lot of resources, or it could be that you need to do this. I was having a bit of a problem with the start-up times and while they're not blazing fast, they are acceptable (takes me 45 seconds to boot now).... Or you could shut down your computer and do a cold boot, see if letting your computer hibernate is the source of your long boot times.

Also you've joined the right place, we're all knowledgeable technology people here ready to help you with your problems... Thanks for asking your question.

 

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digitaldd replied on Tue, Nov 8 2011 10:39 AM

gdeptula:

My concern is that I'm not getting the proper amount of performance that I should be. Could it be a driver issue? Did I make a poor choice in the parts I used? I just don't know.

And another thing, can't seem to quite figure this out either. Whenever I start up from hibernation, it takes FAR too long. I'm talking 2-3 minutes before the password screen appears.

 

System is definitely fast enough to handle just about anything out there, unless you have some sort of crazy display setup like 2 30" displays.. Have you checked the hard drive? it could be failing, check the System log in event view for disk events, hopefully you don't have any bad blocks or similar messages there if you do the drive could be dying.

 

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I'm sorry if my question about the time it takes to load from hibernation was vague, I didn't mean for it to be. That's the only time the lag occurs. Cold boot takes 20-30 seconds. From hibernation is 2-3 minutes, if not longer. The system runs fine once it boots though.

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sounds like it could be an OS issue.

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What do you mean?

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Der Meister:

sounds like it could be an OS issue.

gdeptula:

What do you mean?

"He means that it could be a problem  the Operating System, Windows 7. It might be have problems due to a corrupt file or program. "

 

***My concern is that I'm not getting the proper amount of performance that I should be. Could it be a driver issue? Did I make a poor choice in the parts I used? I just don't know.***


"What type of performance problems are you facing specifically and with what game(s). I'm assuming of course Oblivion, since The latest version of Skyrim doesn't come out until the 11th, but just in case, are you experiencing problems with other games?  What driver version are you running? Did you experience the performance issues after you upgraded to the latest Driver?"

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Again, sorry for being vague. I'm actually not talking about Oblivion but SC2, Crysis and The Witcher 2. 

I sat down and played SC2 with a friend of mine last night. The game automatically scales the graphics for your computer (extreme on mine), but I'm only averaging around 45-50FPS, dips to high 30s in bigger engagements. Is SC2 that demanding of a game on the highest setting?

Another example is the original Crysis. I know Crysis is a demanding game, but a friend of mine has a similar PC with 5850s and ran it seemingly without lag at all. He said the "visuals were maxed," maybe they weren't. I didn't care to check. I had the 1.2 version of Crysis.

While playing The Witcher 2 I noticed some lag with the visuals maxed, although that was only on one card. Doesn't really apply.

I updated the visual drivers recently via Steam's AMD driver update function (don't know if that's frowned upon here or not). I did noticed that after submitting my info for the "Steam hardware survey" that the it said I only had one physical GPU even though I installed the second one not two days before.

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AKwyn replied on Wed, Nov 9 2011 7:28 AM

@gdeptula Thanks for responding, I'm running the latest version of Catalyst (11.10 I'm assuming, make sure you double check that okay?) and so far it's working good, and a setup like that shouldn't be causing problems for the graphics card at all... Have you installed this yet? These are the Crossfire profiles AMD made so that Crossfire would work properly in these games. These don't come with the Catalyst software by default so you problems may relate from not having this installed... I don't know if you have the latest version or not but install it, give it a try...

Also the long hibernation resume times may be coming from a program using up a lot of resources or something within the system itself; you may want to do a google search on your issue as I have not encountered a long hibernation issue before but I do suspect that it's either a problem with a program that you had running when you hibernated the computer or less likely, a problem with the system yourself... A list of programs that run on startup would be nice.

Anyway, for the meantime (unless your hibernating for a reason), just shutdown the computer and do a cold boot everyday until the hibernation issue is resolved... Like you said, the boot time is 20-30 seconds, therefore a program or something in the system just has to be inhibiting the hibernation startup process.

 

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Is there any reason why the Steam Hardware Survey would say that I only have one physical GPU when I have two?

Also, what's a quick way to get to my startup program list and locate the driver version for the card and Catalyst?

Thanks.

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AKwyn replied on Wed, Nov 9 2011 6:31 PM

@gdeptula msconfig.exe; click on the Startup tab...

For Catalyst version. Go to desktop, right click, click on Catalyst Control Center, then click on Information and finally software; it should list the Catalyst Version on the page...

As for the Steam Hardware Survey not seeing the second card, don't know... Did you click the link and installed the software; if so you should try it again to see if it works, also make sure Crossfire is enabled. (I'm assuming you have it enabled but I'm just asking to make sure it's enabled.)

 

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So, I feel like the biggest idiot, but how do you go about enabling Crossfire? Is it something other than installing the card and drivers? Cause that's all I can remember doing...

Also, when I go to the desktop and right click, all I see it AMD Vision Control Center, not Catalyst Control Center. Are the two one in the same?

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try a new driver update from here

http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/index.aspx

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gdeptula replied on Thu, Nov 10 2011 2:25 AM

I think I might've fixed the issue. Upon some digging around in the AMD Vision Control Center, I saw that the second GPU was in a PCIE 2.0 x4 slot. Does that essentially meant that it's a fourth as slow as a x16 slot?

Thanks.

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AKwyn replied on Thu, Nov 10 2011 7:11 AM

gdeptula:
I think I might've fixed the issue. Upon some digging around in the AMD Vision Control Center, I saw that the second GPU was in a PCIE 2.0 x4 slot. Does that essentially meant that it's a fourth as slow as a x16 slot?

Somewhat definitely... I mean those GPU's are supposed to be in a 16x slot, which is either the fourth or third slot of your ATX motherboard. (Third slot if you're using MicroATX) Granted, they'd run at 8x/8x but that's enough for what you need to do, all the gaming sites state that 16x/16x is overkill.... Unless your going Tri-SLI/Crossfire.

 

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gdeptula:

I think I might've fixed the issue. Upon some digging around in the AMD Vision Control Center, I saw that the second GPU was in a PCIE 2.0 x4 slot. Does that essentially meant that it's a fourth as slow as a x16 slot?

Thanks.

"@ gdeptula , did you have the crossfire bridge properly connected ? 

2. Did you check Catalyst Control Center to see if CrossfireX is enbled like in the pic below. 

 

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@gdeptula

"I downloaded the the motherboard manual and MSI recommends that for Dual graphics cards to work properly in Crossfire, the two GPU's must be installed in the first PCI E Slot labeled PCI_E1, and the second , in the PCI_E5. To make easy, I included the pics below."

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AKwyn replied on Thu, Nov 10 2011 4:23 PM

*sigh* Do what the above guy says... I'm pretty sure that you installed the crossfire bridge properly and well probably installed it in the wrong PCI-E slot so a simple fix of moving the card to the specified PCI-E slot should help you gain fast speeds...

As for your hibernation problem, do what I say; cold boot until you find out the problem.

 

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realneil replied on Thu, Nov 10 2011 5:08 PM

Hibernation Problems get reported to the board maker, and then they usually fix it in the next BIOS update.

Does he have the latest BIOS?

NOTE: He will not even have the option to ~Enable Crossfire~ on the system until the Card's in the correct slot either.

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realneil:

Hibernation Problems get reported to the board maker, and then they usually fix it in the next BIOS update.

Does he have the latest BIOS?

"Definitely, I seen many hibernation issues get solve by updating the Bios,  Let's hope first that there's a remote chance that the card being in the wrong slot is the culprit, but even if it is, he should update his bios to prevent any issues that may happen in the future."

realneil:
NOTE: He will not even have the option to ~Enable Crossfire~ on the system until the Card's in the correct slot either.

"Yeah, the recommended slot info , I found after, should have edited to proper order."

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AKwyn replied on Thu, Nov 10 2011 10:18 PM

Didn't take into consideration the BIOS being the issue... In that case, what BIOS version do you have? (pausing the BIOS screen should help you in discerning the version, It's the Pause/Break key...)

According to MSI's website. 1.C is the latest BIOS version, and it's pretty recent too. Seems like your motherboard is in good hands when it comes to BIOS updates.

Note: If you have to upgrade the BIOS, make sure to do them in order; that way, you can make sure that nothing can go wrong. Trust me, people I know do this when updating their BIOS's.

 

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realneil replied on Thu, Nov 10 2011 10:42 PM

MSI's BIOS updates are always ~all inclusive~ unless it's a BETA BIOS.

So he can just update to the latest one, first, and he'll get all of the updates. ASRock and ASUS do it the same way.

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gdeptula replied on Fri, Nov 11 2011 12:40 AM

@OptimusPrimeTime

My GPU options box looks nothing like that, but that boxed was checked. I disabled it cause in another tab it said that one card was enabled while the other one wasn't and enabled it again to see that instead of saying ''disabled,'' it said ''linked.'' At that point I saw that it was in a x4 slot, and it was in the PCI_E4 on my board. I actually downloaded the .pdf of the manual cause I didn't feel like finding the physical booklet.

It's in a x16 slot now and Skyrim is installing. Hopefully I've resolved the issue.

As for the slow hibernation boot times, I thought it could be a BIOS issue. I checked of Google about a month ago but only got Vista problems even though I used "Windows 7" in my search. When I checked the MSI site, the newest BIOS wasn't available for 64-bit Windows at the time, which I thought was odd. Haven't checked since.

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realneil replied on Fri, Nov 11 2011 1:37 AM

The BIOS is not tied into any OS. Get the latest one and install it. Wait,......If your crossfire doesn't work after you moving the second video card to the proper X16 slot,...then get the newest BIOS and flash the board. If it begins to work, Play games and have fun.

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gdeptula replied on Fri, Nov 11 2011 2:19 AM

Okay, no idea what's going on. Installed Skyrim started it up. The game auto-detected "ultra high'' setting, yet when I started playing the game, it plays like a slide show. I had to change the settings to ''low'' to get a decent frame rate. I don't even know at this point. Any ideas?

@realneil What's the latest version and how to I ''flash the board?''

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AKwyn replied on Fri, Nov 11 2011 10:38 AM

gdeptula:

Okay, no idea what's going on. Installed Skyrim started it up. The game auto-detected "ultra high'' setting, yet when I started playing the game, it plays like a slide show. I had to change the settings to ''low'' to get a decent frame rate. I don't even know at this point. Any ideas?

@realneil What's the latest version and how to I ''flash the board?''

The BIOS flashing programs that are included are usually designed for 16-bit systems; which in this case the 32-bit Windows can run... 16-bit and BIOS go a long way together and in a way, they're somewhat mutually exclusive (as in one needs the other type of way.)

Since you have a 64-bit system, that type of BIOS flashing is unavailable to you (unless you can find a 64-bit BIOS flasher, but that's going to be hard.). Instead download the BIOS file, copy it to a USB flash drive then reset, do into the BIOS and look for the key to press to enter the BIOS flasher (in this case, your BIOS flasher should be M-Flash.) enter it, browse to your USB drive, select the BIOS and let it update; do not turn off your system or restart for any reason unless prompted to do so. Once you're prompted and you restart your system, your BIOS should be installed... Trust me, I did the same thing to flash the BIOS on my Maximus III GENE board.

And as I mentioned before; 1.C is the latest version... As for your 3D cards; you should download a program called GPU-Z to make sure that your cards are working as they should. (as in the appropriate clocks and GPU usage, your GPU clocks should be a high number when you play a game, for both of them.) GPU-Z contains not only the graphics card information but also graphics card monitoring... It's actually pretty good and it can give you helpful information when it comes to not only monitoring temps, but overclocking as well.

EDIT: Also this might be unlikely but it seems like Skyrim doesn't seem to be working well with your drivers, similar to another game RAGE which Bethesda (the company behind the two) released. Don't know if it's the problem or not but it's very unlikely.

 

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gdeptula:
Okay, no idea what's going on. Installed Skyrim started it up. The game auto-detected "ultra high'' setting, yet when I started playing the game, it plays like a slide show.

@gdeptula,  I just found out that Skyrim wont work in crossfire at this moment, and that AMD is preparing those drivers to come out as fast as possible. Since you have the GPU's in the proper slot now, I suggest for the moment you only use 1 GPU until AMD ,makes available those drivers."

Here is the Article:Nvidia hit us with its 285.79 beta driver capable of enabling SLI in Skyrim, while AMD claims its CrossFire driver is on the way. It's just a shame there's nothing to show the folks looking to play this game with a pair of Radeons at launch.

Source:Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: PC Performance, Benchmarked http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/skyrim-performance-benchmark,3074-10.html

"One other thing is , before you do that, is to confirm with others games that Crossfire is working properly. Also try so see if the hibernation issue has been resolve , just in case it was the card being in the wrong was the culprit"


 

"Now in regards to Updating the Bios, MSI has made it easy do so on their boards. First step is to download and install this utility named MSI Live Update 5 Here: http://www.msi.com/service/download/

2.Through this utility , download the latest Bios,  as well, if detected, the latest essential drivers for your board and Graphics card , but lets concentrate on the bios for now. Here is the MSI LIve instruction page:  http://www.msi.com/service/Live-Update-5-Manual/

3. MSI live updates give you two options to Flash the Bios. The easiest is through Windows. Follow steps 9 and above under BIOS Flash Instruction or you can choose to do it the USB route. 

 


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"I would like to take this opportunity to put a Disclaimer about my post above. Flashing a Bios is not always a guaranteed successful process. The MSI Live Flash update feature through Windows has worked for many people and has not worked for others. While it seem  easier through the Windows based option in MSI Live, many would recommend to do it with a USB drive instead or the old school way like the Pro's."

"So, with regards to this issue, I would like that you take note with what I said above the Updating the Bios part first,  to see if the card being in the wrong slot has anything to do with the hibernation issue"

"But off course, its always recommended to have the latest most up to date Bios."   

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realneil replied on Fri, Nov 11 2011 1:01 PM

Live update has worked for me every single time that I've used it in the past. I feel that it's stable enough to recommend to others.

The only thing that can screw it up is a power failure during the actual flash process. And this is just as fatal no matter what method that you're using.

The disclaimer works well for CYA purposes. But BIOS flashing these days is far more civilized than it used to be. Smile

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AKwyn replied on Fri, Nov 11 2011 1:34 PM

Wheatley:
"I would like to take this opportunity to put a Disclaimer about my post above. Flashing a Bios is not always a guaranteed successful process. The MSI Live Flash update feature through Windows has worked for many people and has not worked for others. While it seem  easier through the Windows based option in MSI Live, many would recommend to do it with a USB drive instead or the old school way like the Pro's."

There is an edit button you know, you've been here a long time to recognize that... In the words of MC Lyte. "Let me explain how I maintain and for you to grow/for you who don't know it's called H20 so stop asking when I walk by/How I look so young and stay that fly, It's elementary/kick the liquor when you turn for the 30, the rest is a secret for I keep it for the worthy." You have not seemed to learn anything, in fact you type and act like a immature 15 year old kid.

Anyway, I've used Live Update before and they've seen to come up with a 64-bit way of updating your BIOS but the method I suggested works for other motherboards since ASUS doesn't have something like Live Update; it's not because the pro's do it, it's because they have no choice. Hell; I'd like to update it through Windows but I had to use a USB drive.

Also nice job suggesting him stuff that I already suggested, learn to read son.

EDIT: The article you linked to only shows one SLI config in their results; while a SLI 580 setup or others being shown would of been nice, it just isn't that much an accurate representation of what SLI could do on the game.

 

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realneil replied on Fri, Nov 11 2011 2:01 PM

Optimus & Taylor

This constant discord and bickering between the two of you has to stop. Prior, gentle suggestions don't seem to be getting through to you.

We like to try and keep a positive and upbeat flow here, and the problem between the two of you is blowing that out of the water.

So, though I hate to do this, (and should not HAVE to) here is some moderation.

In the future restrict your bickering and name calling to private messages between yourselves. Do not bring it into the public eye here on our forums or your posts will be moderated or deleted. Refer to one another by your registered names here on the boards and stop making up names that do not exist.

(you also have the option to just discontinue discourse between the two of you)

Having to constantly police your conversations will only be tolerated for a short while. If you two cannot get it together and be civil towards one another, you will be referred to our Admins for appropriate action.

We regard both of you as valuable members of our forum & both of you have a lot to contribute.

Consider this a warning.

 

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gdeptula replied on Fri, Nov 11 2011 2:41 PM

Alright, I found CCC and downloaded the latest version (I no longer have AMD Vision Control Center but actual Catalyst Control Center when I right click on the desktop). My AMD video driver and Steam client areup to date. After switching the GPU into the other slot, the slow boot from hibernation still persist, although slightly faster since I turned off a few needless startup programs (cold boot is also faster, obviously). 

I downloaded Live Update 5 and scanned my computer. It came back with about 10 updates, one being the 1.C version BIOS. Another one that caught my attention was something called "JMicron JMB36X Driver." I don't know what it is, but it's second on the list and not even installed. The rest on the list looked newer versions of drivers I already have or features of hardware in my machine.

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gdeptula replied on Fri, Nov 11 2011 3:00 PM

I know there's an edit button, but the two time I've tried to edit my previous comment, the site times out.

Anyway, what I was trying to say is:

I feel that I should mention that SC2 is performing like Skyrim at this point. The frame rate is low and inconsistent and shaders tend to flicker frequently. 

I don't know if this is also related, but web pages tend to "time out" more frequently than they had before, and during boot from hibernation, the windows logo isn't smooth, but chugs as the four colored spheres come together to form the logo.

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realneil replied on Fri, Nov 11 2011 3:26 PM

gdeptula:
I know there's an edit button

That comment was not directed towards you gdeptula.

_________________________________________________

 

If you move the mouse pointer to 'no icon' on your desktop and right click it, a sub-menu appears,.....

You can select to go into AMD's CCC program from there. Do that.

Then look under gaming settings and see if you have the option to enable crossfire acceleration on your system,....do that if it's not already enabled.

Try gaming with it now if it's just been enabled.

Also, on the AMD site, they'll put up ~crossfire profiles~ for games that will tweak your settings for each game you're playing. I understand that you game isn't on there yet,....but it should be soon. Once it's there, install that crossfire profile for your game and enable it.


One question,....if you remove one of the video cards from the system entirely, does the performance improve? How about when the cards are swapped out leaving the other card alone in the system?

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gdeptula replied on Fri, Nov 11 2011 8:17 PM

@realneil I knew that what you said wasn't directed toward me. I was just being informative cause I'm a bit paranoid when I don't define things specifically, haha.

I did as you suggested and took out the card in the PCI_E5 slot. I didn't notice a change in performance.

I haven't installed the 1.C version BIOS. It asked to install with a floppy or in Windows mode. I imagine I'd use the second one, not sure though?

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AKwyn replied on Fri, Nov 11 2011 8:52 PM

gdeptula:
I took out the card in the PCI_E5 slot. I didn't notice a change in performance.

Isn't PCI_E5 the slot which MSI recommends for dual GPU usage... If so then I think you just took out your second card before you got to confirm if Crossfire was working or not; if I'm understanding that correctly.

Anyway; sucks, did you check to see if Crossfire is enabled and the graphics cards are working as they should... In GPU-Z it should tell you if Crossfire is enabled or disabled. If disabled then you might want to double check to see if everything's working properly and if everything's connected... Something could be lose in your system.

gdeptula:

I haven't installed the 1.C version BIOS. It asked to install with a floppy or in Windows mode. I imagine I'd use the second one, not sure though?

Unless you have a floppy drive, use the second one... Every user has positive things to say about the Windows method and I'm sure you've read the posts describing the method in general and I'm sure you know the risks.

So... Click the second one...

 

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gdeptula replied on Fri, Nov 11 2011 10:07 PM

I feel like I should just re-install Windows...

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realneil replied on Fri, Nov 11 2011 10:10 PM

gdeptula:

I did as you suggested and took out the card in the PCI_E5 slot. I didn't notice a change in performance.

This Indicates that crossfire is not enabled.

Swapping the cards out alone in the system and trying them was to see if one is better performing than the other. You should still do this.

There is a proper placement for the second card in your system for crossfire to work properly. sounds like both Optimus & Taylor are on to something here. We HAVE to know that you have placed the cards (both of them) into X16 speed PCI-E slots.

Both of them.

I'm on an iPad right now and can't do a lot of research, but your manual has the information in it. It should also have all of the steps and sequences you have to do to enable crossfire properly. You should take the time to read it through and ensure that you are doing it right.

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realneil replied on Fri, Nov 11 2011 10:10 PM

gdeptula:

I feel like I should just re-install Windows...

Not indicated yet,.......

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gdeptula replied on Fri, Nov 11 2011 10:27 PM

I switched the second card last night. It was in the PCI_E4 slot on my board. Moved it down one. I think I posted that on the previous page, maybe on the top of this one. 

I'm gonna go ahead and install the 1.C version BIOS. See if that does anything.

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