I have a simple rule to avoid bloatware: If Norton or McAfee is pre-installed, then the PC is a boat anchor and I'll look at a different brand instead. Microsoft Security Essentials does a better job for no money at all. Keep in mind I am NOT a Microsoft fan; I prefer Linux, Android, and ChromeOS, but if you have a Windows PC you should be using MSE.
Great write-up Paul, but I don't see this as a fair comparison. If you customize the BTS11 with a 2600k, stock 6850, 80+ psu, bluray drive, 2tb 7200 drive, also right now they have a free upgrade to 1600 ram which comes out to $1264. It would outperform the hp and still come in at a lower price tag with zero bloatware. Plus you can save money by selecting a different case. I'm assuming this is based on stock configs, maybe the paladin E860 would have been a better stock choice for the comparison.
I'm just bitter because I don't want to see hp or dell beat someone like ibuypower in a comparison. All that bloatware!!! Gross!
Now you're just mashing it!
Fair points Mr. McNasty, but we also have to review systems as we receive them, not based on what they could have been. We can't assume that, had iBuyPower altered the configuration a bit, that it would have outperformed the competition. We can give iBuyPower props for upgradeability and price (which we did), but we can't say a hypothetical system performs better or worse than one we've actually tested. It's also worth mentioning that iBuyPower is pushing this as a sub-$1,000 ($999.99 -- we rounded up) back-to-school special.
I'm sure others will take issue with HP edging out iBuyPower, so I'll explain our decision before the comments start rolling in. We ultimately felt HP's value-added extras tipped the scales, like ample storage, Wi-Fi-, Blu-ray, and a built-in TV tuner, all things iBuyPower's system lacks. And with the focus on mainstream/back-to-school, we felt a compact case was a better option than a tower chassis that's almost as tall as I am. A near sweep in gaming performance certainly helped HP's cause, too.
Had this been a mid-range enthusiast round-up, we would have swayed towards iBuyPower for its off-the-shelf parts, upgradeability, and overall price, followed by HP in second and again Dell in third.
One more commnet, Paul: I'd love to see you take something from Doghouse Systems and go head-to-head with Dell. HP's offerings are a dead horse, for my money, I don't want a proprietary system that's definitely going to be orphaned.
"I agree Drake, but each company sent in what they promoted as their official back to school PC. So its basically an "As Is" comparison. I agree that the HP PC has a great value to it and a neater inside,compared to the Dell. Overall I would not buy any of them for my liking, but they have their value. HP and Dell are brands people and businesses have trusted for years, so they will sell. But all in all, if you are a smart shopper , you would be better off configuring a PC at Ibuypower and get more bang for the buck."
"BTW, I love reading Paul's articles, always, great material. Good laughs."
Edit: I see that Paul had responded with excellent points, I agree with him also. I had missed it because I now always write in Forum View instead of in the main page, so I don't lose my comments when the site refreshes.
Folks, this was a first for us. To be completely honest, there was a bit of a debate between myself, Paul and Marco on this round-up. Both Paul and Marco felt HP was the victor. However, I felt iBuyPower ultimately edged out the HP system, though it has fewer features and slightly lower performance, for some of the reasons mentioned here.
Regardless, in the purest sense of journalism, we felt it was best left up to Paul to levy his opinion and rating of the three PCs he tested here. So there you have it. Take from our analysis what you will. Ultimately, we're just here for guidance more than anything else. If you feel one of these is better than the other, from your perspective, then that's the right answer for you.
Either way you slice it, thanks for reading!
Editor In Chiefhttp://hothardware.com
Thanks for the props, OptimusPrimeTime! And I have to give credit to Dave and Marco for the creative freedom I've been afforded.
I've actually never heard of Doghouse Systems; will have to check them out.
I'm honestly not trying to make waves, I'm with @Optimus i enjoy reading these articles and understand you review what gets sent and advertized in a specific category. I actually agree completely that the hp's extras do put it out ahead. If you put those three infront of me and said choose, I would make the same decision. I just wanted to point out that if you add those to the ibuypower you can get them all for a lower price than the hp. But like you said it's no longer an "off the shelf system" and it's no longer the mainstream, sub-1000 pc.
PS....I haven't heard of doghouse systems either, thanks for the heads up!
Drake_McNasty:PS....I haven't heard of doghouse systems either, thanks for the heads up!
(check out the "Racing Rig")
Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live.
My vote goes to the iBuyPower system for the upgrade-ability factor. They use standard components which is a major plus.
Sure do appreciate the write up which was excellent along with the insights regarding the journalism ,aspects regarding the evaluation and being fair .But I still like the the iBuypower system quite a bit more than the HP. I just think that it would provide a better performance value with some simple config and upgrade capability with standard parts is so much easier later on.
"Don't Panic ! 'cause HH got's your back!"
I have to agree that the iBuyPower edges out the other systems but from a purely performance standpoint I understand the verdict :)
I think it would be interesting if you asked them to spec out a system and gave them a very small dollar amount range such as in this case I think $1200 would have been reasonable. Considering that ibuypowers system is about $300 dollars less than the other two systems it is not surprising that the extras are not there.
I have to agree with Drake over here. I mean the HP's and Dell's were obviously made for the consumer market and the iBuyPower can be upgraded to a 560 Ti so what's the point? I mean if the HP has a Dell had a 6850 and the iBuyPower has a 6850 then we'd be having a different discussion huh?
Also if I'm thinking what I'm thinking then we can easily rip out the air coolers and replace them with Asetek coolers, I have a 92MM version of the cooler in my system and it works fine, and if they use what type of Fan Size I'm using then it may be a bit harder but it's still possible; I don't think we should be underestimating the upgradability of these computers just yet.
Also what about the heat, what about the aucoustics. I like that you're focusing on pure performance but we all'd like to know how it performs acoustically and temperature wise. Can you please include that in future reviews Paul?
Aside from those three things, I agree with Drake over the iBuyPower winning over both PC's. I mean sure, HP and Dell are trusted brands but can you just look at the upgradability of that computer?
"The future starts with you; now start posting more!"
What the heck do you guys do with all these systems and other gadgets after you review them???
PCAudioLabs Rok Box MC 7xs - Intel Core i7-2600K - Cooling: PCAL Quiet Operation - Gigabyte Z68 Motherboard - 16GB DDR3-1333 - AMD Radeon HD 5450 - Power Supply: 600 Watts - SRT Drive: Intel 311 SSD (20GB) - Primary Drive: 500GB, 7200RPM, 16MB cache - Audio Drive: 1TB, 7200RPM, 32MB cache - Sample Drive: 2TB, 7200RPM, 64MB cache - OS: Windows 7 Professional x64
going to check doghouse systems my dell almost dead
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